...if the release of the photo would make a village elder in Afghanistan less cooperative and less likely to snitch to U.S. troops about potential attacks, then he's against it.
Not a bad point, and understandable, sort of, but if you've ever seen a Village Elder in Afghanistan, they look like this:
Do ya think he gets on the internet often?
There are released photos and videos of Saddam Hussein being hanged. As well as death photos of Mussolini, Stalin, and numerous other enemy leaders ... so why not Bin Laden? Fact is the Jihad will continue regardless of any released Bin Laden death picture. It won't make any difference whatsoever, just as released photos of the previously mentioned leaders didn't increase (or decrease) attack activity. At minimum, it may make any enemy aware that the U.S. will never, ever give up chase, and this is exactly what you too will look like if you choose to continue your attacks. You can live in a foxhole like Saddam, or you can live in a cave hiding out for over a decade, you'll still end up dead and tossed into the ocean to become shark-.
Re: Do You Believe Osama Bin Laden is Really Dead? NO
Here's the thing, Bin Laden or no Bin Laden, we were and are going to still be under threat of attack by terrorist losers anyway. And since Obama announced that he killed Osama, Al-Qaeda has made a formal announcement that the U.S. will pay for it. This is in spite of the fact that Obama has decided not to show a dead Osama picture in hopes of preventing anger and retaliation, and trying to obey Islamic laws by "burying" the body within 24 hours of their death.
So basically, it's completely pointless to NOT show proof of Bin Laden's death to shut everyone up once and for all. JUST SHOW THE STUPID PROOF.
Re: Do You Believe Osama Bin Laden is Really Dead? NO
a NEWSPAPER REPORT FROM A PAKISTAN newspaper back in December 2001 reported that a taliban leader had attended the funeral of Osama Bin Laden. Look the US govt can't be trusted. It was the US govt that told the UN that Iraq had Weapons of Mass destruction, which as we all know was all lies. How can we trust the US govt to tell the truth. I'm sorry, I can't. Too many lies over too many years. Look the war is not going the way the US wants it too. It is the year of Obama's re-election and the rest of the world is getting sick and tired of their own soldiers dying for what essentailly is a war based on lies perpertrated by the US govt.
Re: Do You Believe Osama Bin Laden is Really Dead? NO
There is no good reason to release the photos. Morbid curiosity isn't a good reason. Releasing pictures with this guy's brains hanging out just isn't logical. If there are people that don't trust the word of elected high-level US government personnel that have seen the photos and heard the soldiers' accounts of the raid, then it is unlikely that they will believe that a 600x800 pixel digital image of a pitiful rat with bullet holes in his head hasn't been photo-shopped.
However, there are good reasons to NOT release the photos - some that are currently obvious to me and some that we might not be able to imagine. The first thing that comes to my mind is that actual official death photos would be a powerful pre-and post-recruitment motivator and could be used to move minds when otherwise those minds might not have been moved.
Actual photos would be a tool to keep bin Laden forever in the forefront as a martyr. We would be giving them a tool and it would be something that couldn't be undone. In a future radical Jihad uprising, you could expect to see people holding signs with these same images. If that were that to happen, most thinking people would agree that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to supply them the actual images to put on their propaganda posters.
The argument has been attempted that these same people being recruited and trained would be motivated anyway with or without the photos. Yeah maybe so, but why risk it? Why take the chance that a training room in north Africa decorated with official death pictures a former leader of al-Qaeda who brought down the Great Satan would be a part of early imprinting to cause potential terrorists to do acts they otherwise wouldn't. It just isn't worth the risk.
One thing is certain - showing these pictures as a hopeful deterrent would not have that effect. Cases in point: a suicide bomber with an explosive vest knows his fate in advance - he knows he will be vaporized. A better example are the 9/11 hijackers who spent over a year training for that day. The pilots knew they were being trained to crash US passenger jets into important targets and they went to bed every night with the knowledge of that certain fate. Did that knowledge that they were training for their death deter them?
Re: Do You Believe Osama Bin Laden is Really Dead? NO
Anonymous wrote:
There is no good reason to release the photos. Morbid curiosity isn't a good reason. Releasing pictures with this guy's brains hanging out just isn't logical. If there are people that don't trust the word of elected high-level US government personnel that have seen the photos and heard the soldiers' accounts of the raid, then it is unlikely that they will believe that a 600x800 pixel digital image of a pitiful rat with bullet holes in his head hasn't been photo-shopped.
That's not totally true. First off where are you getting your information that the only picture that was taken would be 600x800? Or that it was only just one picture? Or that there wasn't video taken also? There are various forensics that can be used to discern between "photoshopped" pictures and genuine ones. Just as people on the internet were, at light speed, able to tell that the one picture circulating across the internet of Bin Laden dead was fake, including it's original sources used in the photoshopping process. Things like this are under microscopic scrunity from BILLIONS of savvy internet users. Sure, there will always be the naysayers, but by and large irrefutable proof is just that.
It's not about morbid curiosity, it's about proving the the world that the United States accomplishes what it said it was going to do, with undisputable proof, in the face of all doubters. As it is now, there isn't a SHRED of proof. If you truly believe that it's just best to blindly believe the word of high-level elected governement personnel, you're just setting yourself up to be blindly misled in countless ways. Do you HONESTLY believe that the U.S. Government, or ANY other Government for that matter has NEVER lied to it's public? Really? I am sure there are hundreds, possibly thousands of real-life examples of history proving you wrong on that account, and most likely you wouldn't have to did very deep to find it.
A great point has already been raised - why is it that it's been perfectly safe to show the real video of Saddam Hussein being hanged, including his dead, staring eyes as he lay there dead, or the charred body of Mussolini (and even the hung upside-down and burnt bodies of U.S. civilian contract workers in Iraq), the corpse of Stalin, but it's suddenly just too dangerous to post the dead picture of Bin Laden? America was a taget on 9/11 even WHEN Osam was alive, has been ever since, has been recently declared to be a revenge target, and will always be one anyway - do you TRULY think this one picture will make any difference? I don't. At least showing the evidence of billions of dollars, 10 years work, and countless lives lost in the process of hunting this guy will put all doubts to rest. Currently the U.S. is making itself look like a joke by making a proofless claim that in spite of it's own people, will not show the proof. I think with the negative image the world generally already has about the U.S., also looking like a lying joke isn't something that also needs to be appended.
Anonymous wrote:
However, there are good reasons to NOT release the photos - some that are currently obvious to me and some that we might not be able to imagine. The first thing that comes to my mind is that actual official death photos would be a powerful pre-and post-recruitment motivator and could be used to move minds when otherwise those minds might not have been moved.
Has already happened, just by the "news" of his death. And again, terrorist minds are terrorist minds. They would've most likely been recruited at some point anyway, especially if they're that close to the "edge" that a picture would cause them to take up the war when otherwise they wouldn't have.
Anonymous wrote:
Actual photos would be a tool to keep bin Laden forever in the forefront as a martyr. We would be giving them a tool and it would be something that couldn't be undone. In a future radical Jihad uprising, you could expect to see people holding signs with these same images. If that were that to happen, most thinking people would agree that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to supply them the actual images to put on their propaganda posters.
I am sure some would. Then again in this day and age of said Photoshop, how hard would it be anyway to whip one up to put on some signs to motivate people? To the people who look to him as a martyr, they already are just by the news of his death, a picture won't make any difference. And in time those pictures would fade away, as have the images of dead leaders past, again, Saddam is one example. New leaders will arise as always, replacing the images and movements of the ones of the past.
Anonymous wrote:
The argument has been attempted that these same people being recruited and trained would be motivated anyway with or without the photos. Yeah maybe so, but why risk it? Why take the chance that a training room in north Africa decorated with official death pictures a former leader of al-Qaeda who brought down the Great Satan would be a part of early imprinting to cause potential terrorists to do acts they otherwise wouldn't. It just isn't worth the risk.
If you could PROMISE me that not showing the image of Bin Laden's death would make the world a safer place, I'd whole heartedly agree not to show them. But the reality is we have, are, and always will be a target for religious extremists. Religion alone has been the greatest cause of war, bloodshed, torture and death since mankind developed it, and this will never change. Maybe what needs to be done is the exact opposite of what you fear - show the evidence, hoping to bring OUT all of the crazies so they can be quickly dealt with rather than slowly over time? Your perspective is one coming from fear. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.
Anonymous wrote:
One thing is certain - showing these pictures as a hopeful deterrent would not have that effect. Cases in point: a suicide bomber with an explosive vest knows his fate in advance - he knows he will be vaporized. A better example are the 9/11 hijackers who spent over a year training for that day. The pilots knew they were being trained to crash US passenger jets into important targets and they went to bed every night with the knowledge of that certain fate. Did that knowledge that they were training for their death deter them?
What percentage of the overall amount of terrorists do you think strapped on vests made of explosives and disintigrated themselves? A very small percentage, maybe 1 in 100 or more. Possibly the most mentally unstable, which ANY civilization has including your everyday american. If they weren't locked up in prisons for murders already chances are they would be willing to do something similar if they believed in it enough. But just like them, there are also many who believe in the same cause who are more intelligent, and don't actually want to die, they want to live AND win their cause. The leaders in particular. Bin Laden is no exception considering he grabbed his wife as a meat shield when he was about to be assasinated. He wanted to LIVE. Letting any wannabe future "leader" see what can (and eventually WILL) happen to them if they mess with the U.S. like that, could at least put some scare into them, and even potentially dissuade them from taking up the cause. Put it this way, if YOU PERSONALLY saw that if you messed with someone you'd end up with your brains blown out, all in gory, bloody, true-life, color images, would YOU still mess with them?
Re: Do You Believe Osama Bin Laden is Really Dead? NO
Anonymous wrote:
If there are people that don't trust the word of elected high-level US government personnel that have seen the photos and heard the soldiers' accounts of the raid, then it is unlikely that they will believe that a 600x800 pixel digital image of a pitiful rat with bullet holes in his head hasn't been photo-shopped.
With all due respect, that exact opinion is what allows ANY government, not only the US, to get away with doing sometimes SCARY things to it's own people. For anyone who is willing to not even question authority and take them solely at their word, should be SURE to read this entire page: Unethical human experimentation in the United States
Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information.
With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?
Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.
Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.
So after reading all of that, of which there is plenty more to read just like it if people just looked and read, why would you choose to just take the Govt at it's "word" without any proof NOW? And what's worse is that people who ARE blindly taking their word are also verbally attacking the non-believers and no so easily convinced, so really, WHO are the ones who look dumb?
Re: Do You Believe Osama Bin Laden is Really Dead?
Bob: "Hey, I just made a million dollars for licking my own elbow, and then I donated it all to charity, so I'm back to being broke" Ron: "Licking your own elbow? That's impossible. Show me right now that you can" Bob: "No. But trust me, I can".
Jane: "I just jumped 15 stories up onto the top of that building" Kate: "Liar, prove it, jump on top of that balcony, it's only 2 stories up" Jane: "No. But trust me, I can".
Obama: "I just killed Public Enemy #1 and then threw him overboard into the ocean" Public: "That's great! 10 years and countless U.S. dollars to accomplish it! Reward us with some proof" Obama: "No, but trust me, I killed him"
Re: Do You Believe Osama Bin Laden is Really Dead?
good point!! I think it's even more weird now with everyone saying openly how they doubt Osama's been recently killed that Obama STILL won't show some kind of proof!!
Re: Do You Believe Osama Bin Laden is Really Dead? (Vote to ...
It is amazing how the government will not release these pictures due to retaliation from terrorists. All of the sudden the democrats care about our troops around the world. Aren't these the same people who forced the Bush admin to release pictures from Gitmo??
Comments
Olympus
Single & Not Looking
Obama Says He Will Not Release Osama Bin Laden Death Photos
You decide.
...if the release of the photo would make a village elder in Afghanistan less cooperative and less likely to snitch to U.S. troops about potential attacks, then he's against it.
Not a bad point, and understandable, sort of, but if you've ever seen a Village Elder in Afghanistan, they look like this:
Here's the thing, Bin Laden or no Bin Laden, we were and are going to still be under threat of attack by terrorist losers anyway. And since Obama announced that he killed Osama, Al-Qaeda has made a formal announcement that the U.S. will pay for it. This is in spite of the fact that Obama has decided not to show a dead Osama picture in hopes of preventing anger and retaliation, and trying to obey Islamic laws by "burying" the body within 24 hours of their death.
So basically, it's completely pointless to NOT show proof of Bin Laden's death to shut everyone up once and for all. JUST SHOW THE STUPID PROOF.
a NEWSPAPER REPORT FROM A PAKISTAN newspaper back in December 2001 reported that a taliban leader had attended the funeral of Osama Bin Laden. Look the US govt can't be trusted. It was the US govt that told the UN that Iraq had Weapons of Mass destruction, which as we all know was all lies. How can we trust the US govt to tell the truth. I'm sorry, I can't. Too many lies over too many years. Look the war is not going the way the US wants it too. It is the year of Obama's re-election and the rest of the world is getting sick and tired of their own soldiers dying for what essentailly is a war based on lies perpertrated by the US govt.
There is no good reason to release the photos. Morbid curiosity isn't a good reason. Releasing pictures with this guy's brains hanging out just isn't logical. If there are people that don't trust the word of elected high-level US government personnel that have seen the photos and heard the soldiers' accounts of the raid, then it is unlikely that they will believe that a 600x800 pixel digital image of a pitiful rat with bullet holes in his head hasn't been photo-shopped.
However, there are good reasons to NOT release the photos - some that are currently obvious to me and some that we might not be able to imagine. The first thing that comes to my mind is that actual official death photos would be a powerful pre-and post-recruitment motivator and could be used to move minds when otherwise those minds might not have been moved.
Actual photos would be a tool to keep bin Laden forever in the forefront as a martyr. We would be giving them a tool and it would be something that couldn't be undone. In a future radical Jihad uprising, you could expect to see people holding signs with these same images. If that were that to happen, most thinking people would agree that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to supply them the actual images to put on their propaganda posters.
The argument has been attempted that these same people being recruited and trained would be motivated anyway with or without the photos. Yeah maybe so, but why risk it? Why take the chance that a training room in north Africa decorated with official death pictures a former leader of al-Qaeda who brought down the Great Satan would be a part of early imprinting to cause potential terrorists to do acts they otherwise wouldn't. It just isn't worth the risk.
One thing is certain - showing these pictures as a hopeful deterrent would not have that effect. Cases in point: a suicide bomber with an explosive vest knows his fate in advance - he knows he will be vaporized. A better example are the 9/11 hijackers who spent over a year training for that day. The pilots knew they were being trained to crash US passenger jets into important targets and they went to bed every night with the knowledge of that certain fate. Did that knowledge that they were training for their death deter them?
There is no good reason to release the photos. Morbid curiosity isn't a good reason. Releasing pictures with this guy's brains hanging out just isn't logical. If there are people that don't trust the word of elected high-level US government personnel that have seen the photos and heard the soldiers' accounts of the raid, then it is unlikely that they will believe that a 600x800 pixel digital image of a pitiful rat with bullet holes in his head hasn't been photo-shopped.
That's not totally true. First off where are you getting your information that the only picture that was taken would be 600x800? Or that it was only just one picture? Or that there wasn't video taken also? There are various forensics that can be used to discern between "photoshopped" pictures and genuine ones. Just as people on the internet were, at light speed, able to tell that the one picture circulating across the internet of Bin Laden dead was fake, including it's original sources used in the photoshopping process. Things like this are under microscopic scrunity from BILLIONS of savvy internet users. Sure, there will always be the naysayers, but by and large irrefutable proof is just that.
It's not about morbid curiosity, it's about proving the the world that the United States accomplishes what it said it was going to do, with undisputable proof, in the face of all doubters. As it is now, there isn't a SHRED of proof. If you truly believe that it's just best to blindly believe the word of high-level elected governement personnel, you're just setting yourself up to be blindly misled in countless ways. Do you HONESTLY believe that the U.S. Government, or ANY other Government for that matter has NEVER lied to it's public? Really? I am sure there are hundreds, possibly thousands of real-life examples of history proving you wrong on that account, and most likely you wouldn't have to did very deep to find it.
A great point has already been raised - why is it that it's been perfectly safe to show the real video of Saddam Hussein being hanged, including his dead, staring eyes as he lay there dead, or the charred body of Mussolini (and even the hung upside-down and burnt bodies of U.S. civilian contract workers in Iraq), the corpse of Stalin, but it's suddenly just too dangerous to post the dead picture of Bin Laden? America was a taget on 9/11 even WHEN Osam was alive, has been ever since, has been recently declared to be a revenge target, and will always be one anyway - do you TRULY think this one picture will make any difference? I don't. At least showing the evidence of billions of dollars, 10 years work, and countless lives lost in the process of hunting this guy will put all doubts to rest. Currently the U.S. is making itself look like a joke by making a proofless claim that in spite of it's own people, will not show the proof. I think with the negative image the world generally already has about the U.S., also looking like a lying joke isn't something that also needs to be appended.
However, there are good reasons to NOT release the photos - some that are currently obvious to me and some that we might not be able to imagine. The first thing that comes to my mind is that actual official death photos would be a powerful pre-and post-recruitment motivator and could be used to move minds when otherwise those minds might not have been moved.
Has already happened, just by the "news" of his death. And again, terrorist minds are terrorist minds. They would've most likely been recruited at some point anyway, especially if they're that close to the "edge" that a picture would cause them to take up the war when otherwise they wouldn't have.
Actual photos would be a tool to keep bin Laden forever in the forefront as a martyr. We would be giving them a tool and it would be something that couldn't be undone. In a future radical Jihad uprising, you could expect to see people holding signs with these same images. If that were that to happen, most thinking people would agree that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to supply them the actual images to put on their propaganda posters.
I am sure some would. Then again in this day and age of said Photoshop, how hard would it be anyway to whip one up to put on some signs to motivate people? To the people who look to him as a martyr, they already are just by the news of his death, a picture won't make any difference. And in time those pictures would fade away, as have the images of dead leaders past, again, Saddam is one example. New leaders will arise as always, replacing the images and movements of the ones of the past.
The argument has been attempted that these same people being recruited and trained would be motivated anyway with or without the photos. Yeah maybe so, but why risk it? Why take the chance that a training room in north Africa decorated with official death pictures a former leader of al-Qaeda who brought down the Great Satan would be a part of early imprinting to cause potential terrorists to do acts they otherwise wouldn't. It just isn't worth the risk.
If you could PROMISE me that not showing the image of Bin Laden's death would make the world a safer place, I'd whole heartedly agree not to show them. But the reality is we have, are, and always will be a target for religious extremists. Religion alone has been the greatest cause of war, bloodshed, torture and death since mankind developed it, and this will never change. Maybe what needs to be done is the exact opposite of what you fear - show the evidence, hoping to bring OUT all of the crazies so they can be quickly dealt with rather than slowly over time? Your perspective is one coming from fear. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.
One thing is certain - showing these pictures as a hopeful deterrent would not have that effect. Cases in point: a suicide bomber with an explosive vest knows his fate in advance - he knows he will be vaporized. A better example are the 9/11 hijackers who spent over a year training for that day. The pilots knew they were being trained to crash US passenger jets into important targets and they went to bed every night with the knowledge of that certain fate. Did that knowledge that they were training for their death deter them?
What percentage of the overall amount of terrorists do you think strapped on vests made of explosives and disintigrated themselves? A very small percentage, maybe 1 in 100 or more. Possibly the most mentally unstable, which ANY civilization has including your everyday american. If they weren't locked up in prisons for murders already chances are they would be willing to do something similar if they believed in it enough. But just like them, there are also many who believe in the same cause who are more intelligent, and don't actually want to die, they want to live AND win their cause. The leaders in particular. Bin Laden is no exception considering he grabbed his wife as a meat shield when he was about to be assasinated. He wanted to LIVE. Letting any wannabe future "leader" see what can (and eventually WILL) happen to them if they mess with the U.S. like that, could at least put some scare into them, and even potentially dissuade them from taking up the cause. Put it this way, if YOU PERSONALLY saw that if you messed with someone you'd end up with your brains blown out, all in gory, bloody, true-life, color images, would YOU still mess with them?
Single & Looking
If there are people that don't trust the word of elected high-level US government personnel that have seen the photos and heard the soldiers' accounts of the raid, then it is unlikely that they will believe that a 600x800 pixel digital image of a pitiful rat with bullet holes in his head hasn't been photo-shopped.
With all due respect, that exact opinion is what allows ANY government, not only the US, to get away with doing sometimes SCARY things to it's own people. For anyone who is willing to not even question authority and take them solely at their word, should be SURE to read this entire page: Unethical human experimentation in the United States
Be sure to also read this article on the New York Times dated 07/11/02 stating that Bin Laden was confirmed dead 6 months earlier
By Amir Taheri
Published: July 11, 2002
Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan. Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, echoed the information.
With an ego the size of Mount Everest, Osama bin Laden would not have, could not have, remained silent for so long if he were still alive. He always liked to take credit even for things he had nothing to do with. Would he remain silent for nine months and not trumpet his own survival?
Or this article on Fox News dated 12/26/01
Report: Bin Laden Already Dead
Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.
Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.
And finally, take a good read of this page, Osama bin laden pronounced dead for the ninth time
So after reading all of that, of which there is plenty more to read just like it if people just looked and read, why would you choose to just take the Govt at it's "word" without any proof NOW? And what's worse is that people who ARE blindly taking their word are also verbally attacking the non-believers and no so easily convinced, so really, WHO are the ones who look dumb?
Bob: "Hey, I just made a million dollars for licking my own elbow, and then I donated it all to charity, so I'm back to being broke"
Ron: "Licking your own elbow? That's impossible. Show me right now that you can"
Bob: "No. But trust me, I can".
Jane: "I just jumped 15 stories up onto the top of that building"
Kate: "Liar, prove it, jump on top of that balcony, it's only 2 stories up"
Jane: "No. But trust me, I can".
Obama: "I just killed Public Enemy #1 and then threw him overboard into the ocean"
Public: "That's great! 10 years and countless U.S. dollars to accomplish it! Reward us with some proof"
Obama: "No, but trust me, I killed him"
Taken
It is amazing how the government will not release these pictures due to retaliation from terrorists. All of the sudden the democrats care about our troops around the world. Aren't these the same people who forced the Bush admin to release pictures from Gitmo??
Arizona
Married
I voted Yes - but because I think he's been dead for years. I don't know why the US is only now saying it though.